Part II of my interview with Snowy Shaw (King Diamond, Dream Evil, Mercyful Fate, Denner/Shermann, Ill Will, Memento Mori, Dimmu Borgir, Therion, XXX, Notre Dame.
We pick up where he tells me where he was when he found out Andy LaRocque and King Diamond parted company.
Snowy: The thing is like, I was actually in Copenhagen and I met [Michael] Denner , went to the record store (Beat Bop - owned by former Mercyful Fate and King Diamond guitarist Michael Denner) and all that and I was at this amusement park Tivoli because it was my birthday and my girlfriend was sitting there having dinner, very nice. I got this text, “Andy LaRocque has quit King Diamond after 40 years. Holy shit, it didn't really come as a surprise because it's been kind of tricky. They've been planning on the new album for 20 years. (laughs)
Rys: Yeah. And then he does Lex Legion with Mikkey and Pete Blakk and Hal Patino….
Snowy: Yeah, Lex Legion. Yeah. But that's a cool thing. Absolutely. But the funny thing is that, oh my god, so I texted Andy right away and then I got another text from some guy, Dean, ‘Gus G replaces Andy in King Diamond’. And it’s like, wow, kind of incestuous or whatever you say, like a small family because Gus and I play together in Dream Evil and Andy, I've been in King Diamond too, so it's a small family actually. Yeah, so, but I, I totally understand because we have one life. I mean my world view or my view on life in general, I would say. I tattooed on my hand as did my girlfriend “here and now”. That's all we have. You cannot do anything about the past and the future. Who can tell? You're the captain of your own ship. Make it as good as possible. Where am I going with this? And it's been there for 40 years. You have one life. Maybe try to do the best of it. Maybe it sort of got a little bit boring after all these years and all this talk about new albums and it's been like 19 or 20 years. Why not try something different? Just like I, told you that I'm not interested in … been there, done that. I don't want to go on tour and do those things and cling on to some, your own old merits or whatever it might be and cash in on that or something.
I actually planned on opening a dog shelter.
Rys: Oh, that's what I wanted to ask you about. your work with animals.
Snowy: Yeah, but basically I was kind of in low spirits yesterday and I took a long walk, I need to sort of clean my head. And I walk around thinking about what the fuck am I going to do with shit. And the only thing that this happened on a few occasions, where I lit up and were like smiling is when I saw a dog or a cat. That's really what I want to do, which is like a good indicator. What am I going to do with the rest of my life? You should not work but you should have animals that makes me happy. Everything else makes me pissed off, especially this business because I cannot share that enthusiasm with other people. Wow, it's so cool. They were head banging and they had a foot on the monitor. Woo!!! That's crazy.
Rys: (laughs) “Wow, I got to see Iron Maiden do number the beast again!!”
Snowy: Woo!! yay!! I'm sorry, I don't want to be grumpy and condescending or anything like that. But this is occupational damage times 100.
Rys: You're being honest. You're not saying, hey, I'm really happy to be here and I'm really enthusiastic and I got smoke coming out of my ass.
Snowy: I'm the worst liar and I won't lie to myself because fuck it, stay true to myself. I do the best of my situation in my life and do whatever makes me happy. And that's what we all got to remind us of instead of out of convenience, yeah, but you always fit into this. Yeah, but I've changed my mind. I'm, I gotta say for the record that I am super interested in producing music and recording music because that's it's documentation as well. It's just not something that some drunk person saw live or something.
Snowy: It's a documentation because it's going to last. It's some sort of legacy.
Rys: Right, something that leaves a record. It's something that's there. You can go back to it. You can reference it. It'll always exist.
Snowy: Yeah, that's the way I figure. And that is also what leads us to my latest release, which is Shawsome- the Snowy Shaw Collection Volume 1. (available here https://www.snowyshaw.net/product/shawsome-the-snowy-shaw-collection-vol-1/)
And it's gonna be at least three of them. So what I'm doing here, what I've been doing, I don't know if you're familiar with that at all. Have you heard about it?
Rys: Yeah, of course, I've seen it on your website.
Snowy: Yeah, the thing is that I've been doing a lot of, let's say guest appearances or collaboration with people and being involved in so many different bands, different positions I played. For instance, this Volume One features a song with Dimmu Borgir, where I was playing bass and sang. We were doing “Perfect Strangers”. It was just a bonus track for the album in 2010 or whatever. And it was never really properly released. So that got included there. But anyway, there are stuff that I've done with bands in Argentina or Italy or Scotland or whatever. and we're not talking about like Bon Jovi or Iron Maiden level so not everybody's aware or up to speed with that. So I figured that there were people writing me “hey Snowy I discovered that you sing on a couple of songs with this band from Brazil, Never heard about that”, and that was maybe I don't know ten years ago six years ago, I don't know. But how could you because you're a German guy, why would you know about what happened in Brazil? Maybe they are popular in their own home turf, but not on the other side of the world basically. So I figured that I've been doing so much different things. Snowy: So I figured, is there any way I could collect it all under the same roof, just to kind of showcase the legacy or the width of my work. So I was in contact with all of them, like the record companies or the producers and this and that, and I got the permission to put it out. So that is why I made those collections. And it's kind of interesting because it shows width, musical width and diversity.
Rys: It shows your legacy, it shows the diversity of what you've done.
Snowy: Yeah, but that is basically it, because I wanted to do that, it's kind of my legacy. But that's kind of an interesting thing, but I don't know if any other artist has done that before, maybe because they don't... I'm doing stuff with a lot of people like that. So, yeah, but I figured that's an exciting, kind of interesting idea at least.
Rys: Yeah, because people might just know you from King Diamond or just might know you from Therion, you know what I mean? This is like, look, I've done a lot of stuff.
Snowy: Yeah, this is a, how can I put this? I tend to be a little irritated when people only remember you from something you did like 37 years ago in King Diamond. And I'm doing a lot of other things besides playing drums, for example.(laughs) But I was with Therion, for example, as a singer and frontman and this and that, songwriter maybe for about six or seven years. And also then I was, I've been in Dream Evil, for example, I wrote a lot of the songs on the third album, “The book of Heavy metal” and I played all the guitars on the album, except for Gus's solos and stuff like that. People don't know that, of course, because that's the way it works. I have a little bit more to give than just playing drums.
Rys: Right, but people like to pigeonhole because King Diamond has this legendary status. So, oh, you're King Diamond's drummer. It's like, no, there's more than that.
Snowy: Yeah, but I can understand. I'm probably the same way myself. You want to put people in a small box so, he's this blonde guy who's playing with Satanists. He's playing drums with.... But, there's more to a person than that. So, what do you mean you play guitar as well? Yeah, but come on, I've been doing that for a long, long time. Notre Dame, my own horror metal band, or if you want to call it a band, because it was just a fake band. I mean, it was just me. And then I had some models pretending to be a band. And all that, but then I played everything and then produced and did everything. But it's always easier to pigeonhole someone, put them in that little corner, I know where you are, you're into the dark, Satanic metal.
What keeps me going and what has sort of made me be such a long time in this business is because I just follow my heart and quit the band if I'm not excited or if it doesn't stimulate me or pleases me anymore and then I would I would very often I would do two or three juggle three or two different bands at the same time and they were very much contrasting. :Let's say I was with Therion which is kind of operatic and pretentious pompous like high-strung in a way .Then I was like doing this glam rock thing which was more like 70s glam rock with a band called Triple X, And that is it couldn't be any more different. But if I would just do one thing it tends to get too much of it. It's just like if you're watching movies you cannot just watch horror movies. Maybe you should do a family comedy to lighten things up. Otherwise I tend to try to squeeze in some Sweet or Gary Glitter or whatever it might be, Mark Bolan into Therion and it doesn't fit in there. You shouldn't try to squeeze that in. It doesn't belong there. And if you're doing vice versa, if you were doing that kind of T-Rex, Sweet kind glam, glitter rock or whatever, it's not like, if you're only doing that, then you feel a need to be more high sort of {sings high pitch…] It doesn't fit in there, in that kind of style. and be more pompous, and esoteric, stick to the style, keeping it in the box, whatever it's you should produce. But yeah, sorry, I'm babbling away.
Rys: No, that's perfect. This is great.
Snowy: For me, I want to be able to do all kinds of different music that satisfies me because I'm not so hung up on genres per se. even though it would be easier for your audience, like, we know what you're representing, we know what we have you, we pigeonhole you. But I just want to... To me, good music is good music, a good song is a good song regardless of genre. I couldn't care less actually, but this is not metal. So what? It's a good song.
Rys: Yeah, there's so many people who won't listen to a band or something because oh, this isn't a metal band. I won't listen to it. It's like, oh, well, fuck yourself then you're not you're missing out on good music.
Snowy: I can totally understand that. I've been talking to colleagues and friends about that lately. The funny thing is though that I also bump into people who are about my age. Like your generation X been around for a long time and oh no, that's fucking disco. That's not true metal. But give me a fucking break. You're 55 years old. And, if this was your youth revelation or Revolution, where you were like breaking free from your parents or something and wanted to find your own way and if your parents say (imitates annoyed parent) “what are you listening to? Sounds awful, they're just screaming.” Mission accomplished, that's what you want. To kind of revolt against them. But if you still have that mindset 45 years later, it's kind of pathetic I would say.
Rys: “This will piss off my parents.” It's like your parents are in their 90s. Like why do you care at this point? You're a grown man. Stop it.
Snowy: (laughs) I don't know what to say about this. Be open to different things. A good song is a good song. That's what I think.
Rys: Well you're a big ABBA fan, right?
Snowy: Yeah, I'm a big ABBA fan, but I tattooed it on my knuckles. Let me explain, there's always an explanation behind your tattoos. And the thing is when I was with Sabaton and doing this fucking devil horns metal sign in all the pictures, I thought I think that's so goofy and I didn't want to do that. So I took a marker and I wrote on my knuckles ABBA because that is such a contrast to it's also a statement and I show my fist ABBA. And then Joakim [Brodén] the singer came and he said oh you’ve got to fucking tattoo there now otherwise I'm gonna do it. I better hurry up then, so I got it. (laughs) It's such a funny statement and it's a Swedish thing I guess also just because people tend not to think that maybe if they see me they think I'm all metal or something like that but if I have Abba …
Rys: he's a softy he's a sweetheart he listens to “dancing queen” oh what a nice guy
Snowy: yeah but I don't want to be pigeonholed. I don't try to live up to their expectations. I just follow my own rules basically.
Rys: You know one thing I always loved about you is when I was getting ready for the interview I was looking at old promo photos and I found one from when you were doing Denner / Sherman and they're all wearing button down shirts and black leather jackets and you're in the promo photo you got like this black furry thing on and you have all your makeup.
Snowy: Yeah. What can I say?
Rys: It's like you're the one that looks like a rock star
Snowy: Yeah, I grew up with that. I think it's fun. You have to represent your music in a way. What can I say? I think it’s amusing. Not everyone likes to dress up like that. But I grew up with Kiss. If Kiss would have looked like Bay City Rollers or Bachman Turner Overdrive or Budgie I would have never got into them. Because , for me, I started out as a kid being really a nut case for horror magazines, like Werewolf at Night and Dracula, Frankenstein and Tales from the Crypt and all of that. And I was listening kind of casually to what the older guys around me were listening to Nazareth or Deep Purple or Slade or whatever. But then the transition into when I discovered Kiss, I just saw their album cover. Wow, it could be Marvel Comics, like this oil painting for “Destroyer”. And that like, wow, I just got to have that. I don't know what it is. I didn't even know it was an LP, a vinyl album. I thought it was some sort of calendar or something like that, but I just got to have it regardless of what it is. Because I was just so mesmerized by the whole thing. And it turned out that it was the most fantastic album as well, produced by Bob Ezrin, who's like some sort of genius when it comes to sound.
Snowy: So it's like, yeah, and that, it's fucking 50 years ago. And it's still sort of the benchmark or the masterpiece that I kind of compare everything to because it has such a life altering or such a huge impact on me that I changed everything forever. That was just because it was like kids screaming, cars crashing and all these sounds . If you close your eyes and just fantasize or imagine you could, it could be like a dark action movie. And that is basically what I've been trying to do, not in every band that I've been with but that is sort of my biggest passion. I would say like to do make it cinematic or expressive in such a way, even though I love AC/DC. But that is so bombastic and fantastic due to Bob Ezrin, the producer, in combination with Kiss, of course, and combination with Ken Kelly, who painted the album cover. Otherwise I wouldn't have discovered it to begin with, I guess
Rys: That's another thing that's missing nowadays is going to a record store and buying an album cover: That just doesn't exist.
Snowy: That is definitely something, people say that all the time. Oh, we used to buy albums based on what we saw. The album cover looked cool and exciting. But that's all gone. It's so fucking tragic, but you cannot apply all the rules to a new game. Everything has completely changed. , now you get a thumbnail at the most to see the artwork for an album on, let's say Spotify or something like that. So the whole art, the whole experience with the art of having a gatehold album and reading the lyrics and seeing the pictures of the musicians, all of that is gone. What can I say? I totally wish it wasn't that way but I also realized that times have changed and it's gonna keep changing. I've been saying this to a lot of people because all of us musicians that are trying to earn a living from our art and expression and all that , we're facing starvation I guess because it won't work anymore. First we saw the digitalization or everything going digital in the late 90s. And then you have internet a few years later, which completely changed everything for good and bad. There's always pros and cons, I guess. And the world sort of shrunk. , I'm sitting talking to you, not right now in New York.
Rys: Yeah. That never would have happened a few years ago.
Snowy: Yes, that's a lot of good things about it. And the third step is AI. And that's gonna ruin everything. That's the nail in the coffin.
That's the end. Because, I'm talking about artwork by Ken Kelly. I'm listening to those YouTube channels where they talk about how they found him and paint that and that kind of changed my life. Four tough guys looking like superhero comic, blah, on the top of a hill burning and so on. And then you get like 30, 30 pictures. And then you modify a little bit like more white faces or more bigger gestures or something. They get 30 more and it's done in like half an hour.
Rys: Yeah, you don't have to pay an artist. You don't have to deal with it.
Snowy: Yeah, and same thing with music. A lot of people think, oh, I'm a composer. Are you? , you're an architect or you're something else. But, I'm making songs with AI in my phone.
Rys: Oh yeah because I'm telling the AI I want this type of song and these lyrics and they've even having the AI write the lyrics for them which is cheating.
Snowy: Yeah but they're not doing anything. They haven't spent all those countless hours trying to get the hang of how to play the guitar or to sing or play drums or to produce it or anything like that. And the worst part is that the consumer, the receiver, if they cannot tell the difference, if they are so easily pleased, it's, “oh wow, this sounds good.” I always say that, why should you throw pearls before pigs? Like if you can't tell the difference between chocolate mousse and poop
Rys : Why are you knocking yourself out if the people lap. It's the writers
Snowy: I don't know, I haven't been to New York for a long time now, but let's say you go to Burger King for example. In the past you have like ten people working there . The cashier,taking your orders and you pay for that and they have guys in the kitchen making their hamburgers and you wait around in the line and then you get your stuff. Nowadays you go to this machine, it's self-service. You have this menu or you select this and that, I want extra cheese on that, blah blah. And you pay for it with your credit card and you get a number. And they, on the screen, 234, okay, that's me. And they get, you have to get your food. So they can minimize the staff instead of having to pay for 10 people, you can have four. That's gonna happen all over with everything. We don't need people anymore . So what are people gonna work with?
Rys: But they want to get rid of human contact too, they just don't want people to get together anymore at least that's how I feel
Rys: Based on a picture. It's all based on a picture. And the picture can be AI.
Snowy: But going to a night club all night and dance. Nobody does that anymore. So it ruins so many, so many businesses and everything has changed. Yeah, and it's not necessarily for the better. Some things are for the better, I guess, but for the most part, no human interaction.
Video: “Snowy Shaw - Be Kind to Animals Or I’ll Kill You”
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